Fisher Investments - Fishing for Business
Disclosure: Established in 1995, Fisher Investments Private Client Group is a division of Fisher Investments that offers money management services to qualified individuals on a separately managed account basis. All mentions of Fisher Investments in this article are in reference to their Private Client Group. Fisher Investments account performance analyzed for this article applies to Global Total Return modeled accounts that have no client restrictions. In addition to having clients in the US, Fisher Investments now also services clients in Canada, the UK and through an affiliate in Germany. Laws and Fisher Investments business practices may differ significantly outside of the United States. Therefore, this article may not apply to non US based investors. Also, Fisher Investments has grown in part through significant acquisitions. Fisher Investments may have different obligations towards clients obtained through such acquisitions and may handle such accounts differently. Furthermore, Fisher Investments clients that indicate lower risk tolerance or shorter investment time horizons may experience results or strategies which are significantly different from the ones discussed in this article. This article expresses opinions about Fisher Investments based on one client's short experience working with Fisher Investments as well as on analysis of the limited data available from public sources and directly from the company. Since Fisher Investments only offers services to qualified individuals, it is not subject to the same rigorous regulatory oversight and reporting standards (including daily pricing) as are the mutual funds. Fisher Investments denied requests for additional data, which would have allowed for a more thorough and direct analysis of their performance.
I would like to thank everyone for their comments to the original blog entry appearing in this space for inspiring me to write this full length feature story on Fisher Investments. A condensed version of this article is also slated for publication in the March issue of the newspaper.
Introduction: Fisher Investments is an independent money management firm with over $45 billion in assets under management. In existence since 1979, it first began offering money management services to individuals in 1995. Fisher Investments advertises widely on financial websites and is an amazingly well run marketing machine. Fisher Investments staff and marketing materials position Fisher Investments as the country's leading wealth money manager with stellar performance. CEO of Fisher Investments, Kenneth Fisher is a son of the legendary investor and author of Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits, Philip A. Fisher. Ken in his monthly column in Forbes magazine, picks stocks among random musings on the state of the economy. Some years these stock picks have done reasonably well, however, according to Ken Fisher's January 2008 column in Forbes, 2007 was not one of those years, with his stock picks yielding less than a 1% return. Turns out that just like their boss, Fisher Investments also fails to impress with consistent performance. In fact, analysis of Ken Fisher and Fisher Investments money management strategy, style and stock picks yields surprising results.
Background: I was expecting a baby, didn't have the time to manage money on my own, had previously considered using Fisher Investments, which was now also recommended by a trusted friend, who recently started using them. After doing some checking on the Internet and asking around, I decided to give them a try. I sold off various assets and transferred cash to Fisher Investments discretionary accounts at the custodian that Fisher Investments designated for me. All agreements were signed and accounts were 72% funded by December 19th. The other 28% of the funds hit the account on December 27th. Fisher Investments went to work right away, investing approximately 1/6 of the total on December 21st, 24th, 26th, 27th and January 3rd and 4th. Very quickly I realized that Fisher Investments ideas of what constitutes a good investment did not match mine and I attempted to fire them on December 28th. They managed to convince me to stay on, but made no purchases on the four trading days between December 28th and January 2nd, as the result. In the meantime, I requested that Fisher Investments send me monthly historical performance data in electronic form, so that I can have some chance to analyze it and get a better idea of what I can expect in the future. I was told that such information was not available to clients and that quarterly data was being sent to me by overnight delivery. I was unimpressed, judging their quarterly performance data to be inconsistent vs. the MSCI World Index, which Fisher Investments uses as the benchmark. This coupled with unresponsiveness to my data requests confirmed my prior decision. By the morning of Monday, January 7th, I canceled my agreement with Fisher Investments and quickly moved my accounts from the Fisher Investments designated custodian to another brokerage. Being busy with the imminent birth of a child (she arrived on Friday, January 18th), I put these matters aside for the next three weeks... When I came back to look at my accounts over the last weekend in January, I was surprised to see that the ones built by Fisher Investments declined significantly more than the indexes. This motivated further research culminating in this article, which I sincerely hope will help others determine whether Fisher Investments is the right choice for their money management needs.
Fisher Investments Basics: Fisher Investments traders use sophisticated software to route buy and sell orders to brokerages. Each security's daily average per share execution price is assigned to the affected client account's transactions at the end of the trading day. For this reason, clients can see the day's transactions only after US markets close and never in real time. Fisher Investments accounts are fully discretionary, which means that at any time Fisher Investments may buy or sell any security that they believe will benefit clients. Clients, however, are able to direct Fisher Investments to not buy or not sell certain stocks, or stocks in certain industries. Beyond this and other items listed in the disclosure, Fisher Investments intends for all accounts to be the same at all times, with neither consideration given to the date when each account was first set up, nor the cost basis of securities in each of the accounts. It makes sense that each customer should equally benefit from Fisher Investments "best ideas." However, this simplistic approach fails to recognize that some positions in current clients' portfolios are neither "buys," nor "sells." For example, if Fisher Investments should decide that a certain account position must be reduced over a given time period, clients starting with Fisher Investments over that time period would instead see this position added to their accounts. By ignoring "holds" Fisher Investments appears to simplify their work, but may compromise performance of their clients’ portfolios.
Purisima fund: In addition to being the CEO of Fisher Investments, Kenneth Fisher also manages Purisima Total Return (PURIX) mutual fund, which, just like the Fisher Investments accounts, is benchmarked against MSCI World Index and which, incidentally, according to Morningstar as of February 15th, 2008 lags behind both that index and other funds in the category for average 3 and 5 year performance. There are claims circulating on the Internet that PURIX and Fisher Investments accounts are the same. Of course, to verify this unequivocally would require cooperation from Fisher Investments, which we have not been able to obtain. Nevertheless, we can get sufficiently close by simply looking at the data. At the time when we parted company, Fisher Investments had 69 positions in my account. Of these, 46 were also PURIX top 55 holdings from over a month before! (This, according to the latest publicly available information from a 1/29/08 PURIX filing. Also, these 46 holdings accounted for more than 61.6% of that fund's value on 11/30/07.) In addition, there are only small differences in annual performance between PURIX and Fisher Investments accounts, with PURIX beating Fisher Investments Global Total Return by 0.7% a year on average. Such small performance differences could, potentially, be explained by the differences in fee structures. In any case, that these two sets of annual performance numbers correlate 99.85% with each other and far better than either of them correlates with the MSCI World Index for the ten years from 1997 to 2006 is hardly an accident. This data leaves very little doubt that even if not identical, Purisima Total Return (PURIX) mutual fund and Fisher Investments accounts are at least identical twins.
(Please note that I did not have full year 2007 performance numbers to use in this article. Those of our readers who have read Ken Fisher's latest book, The Only Three Questions that Count, probably noticed Fisher Investments account performance numbers published in Appendix K. If they had also looked at the PURIX fund prospectus, they would have noticed that the two sets of performance numbers look nothing alike. The only reason for this is that the performance numbers, as published in the book (but not in the prospectus) are for the years ending on June 30th, instead of December 31st, as is customary in the industry. We expect that many of Ken's book readers missed the small print explaining this fact and would have been mislead as a result.)
Recent Performance: Accounts that were built for me by Fisher Investments declined 11.8% from the market close on Thursday, December 20th, 2007 to the the market close on Friday, January 25th, 2008. (As a point of reference, consider that MSCI World Index declined only 7.6% and thesmaller account I built on my own, suffered a much milder 5.1% decline over the same time period.) Many positions were near their 52 week highs and trading at relatively high P/Es at the time when Fisher Investments added them to my accounts. Fisher Investments investment counselor, John said that my portfolio was built to be balanced between growth and value stocks and that I should trust them to do their job. However, even the best growth stocks don't always trade at their yearly highs and I would think that the best time to buy them would be after they correct and not before. In any case, Fisher Investments best performing stock pick was up less than 4%, while the worst - down almost 35% from December 20th, 2007 to January 25th, 2008. The 5 largest individual stock positions, representing approximately 13% of the initial total, were down over 19%. But the smallest 5 positions, representing approximately 3.5% of the initial total, were down less than 9%. It is rather doubtful that if I had allowed Fisher Investments to continue managing my accounts, the above described situation would have been appreciably different. These trends started to emerge right away and when I asked my Fisher Investments investment counselor about them, the only answer I received was that short term performance results are irrelevant. However, good long term results can only come as a result of consistently performing well in the short term. The only plausible explanation I could find for such poor performance in such a short period of time was that while Fisher Investments may be fine at asset allocation, they appear to be rather poor at picking individual stocks and setting appropriate buy and sell limits for the stocks they select.
Further qualifying the validity of performance numbers on January 25th, as I quoted them above is the following. Before I signed the last of the account paperwork in the middle of December I was very concerned that at the start of the year Fisher Investments would quickly change their mind and sell what they had just bought. My Fisher Investments investment counselor assured me that repositioning for the new year had already taken place. Earlier, Pam, a Fisher Investments Denver area sales person had quoted their portfolio turnover rate at around 20%. Thus, I could expect that Fisher Investments would have changed at most one position out of the 69 between January 7th and January 25th and that would have made virtually no difference on performance.
Also, since it appears that we can reliably use PURIX performance as a proxy for Fisher Investments performance, let's take a look at how it did over the same time period. Turns out that PURIX lost 9.5% of it's value from its close on December 20th, 2007 to the close on January 25th, 2007, with most of that loss (8.3%) occurring between January 7th and January 25th. However bad, that is still 2.3% better than the 11.8% loss my account experienced. The difference is explained by Fisher Investments purchasing securities not at the closing price on December 20th, 2007, but at prices (excluding commissions) on average 2.15% higher. Adding to that approximately 1/4 % spent on buy-in commissions and PURIX results match those achieved on my account to within 0.1%. Furthermore, the timing of the tail end 8.3% loss by PURIX, matches that of my account rather well.
The "Fisher penalty": Why did Fisher Investments have to spend on average 2.15% more to buy positions for my account than their closing prices on December 20th, 2007? Financial markets were in a general down trend over that time period. Fisher Investments investment counselor insisted that this was just a coincidence and that they have recently made changes in the way they transact, to make sure that they are not influencing market prices with their actions. Assuming no wrongdoing, the only reasonable explanation I could come up with for this "Fisher penalty" is that Fisher Investments, by making large transactions on behalf of many clients simultaneously significantly impacts supply and demand of the transacted securities. For example, according to Fidelity Investments, as of December 31, 2007, Fisher Investments owned 17.24% of all outstanding shares of Ishares MSCI Japan Index Fund (EWJ). The next largest EWJ holder was Goldman Sachs with only a 2.34% stake. According to Yahoo Finance, the average daily volume for EWJ is under 23 million shares, yet Fisher Investments controlled about 6 times that many shares. Now, consider what would happen if Fisher Investments reduced their clients' exposure to EWJ by say 1/3 in a single day.
Exchange Traded Funds (ETFs): ETFs are essentially mutual funds that can be traded on exchanges, just like stocks. Fisher Investments allocated 8.5% of my portfolio not to individual stocks, but to four ETFs. Two of these were by far the largest positions taken out by Fisher Investments on my behalf. Fisher Investments account representative claimed that this was the most cost effective way to build my portfolio. However, each of these funds has their own management expense and three of the four were not in Emerging Markets. Of course, it would be cost prohibitive to take out miniscule positions in each of the underlying securities directly. However, that's hardly necessary and purchasing the best stocks included in each of the ETFs would yield better results. Of course, identifying which individual stock will perform best is a more difficult job to do. But that's why clients hire money managers in the first place!
World stocks - US markets: Roughly half of all the individual stocks purchased for my portfolio by Fisher Investments were American Depository Receipts (ADRs) and American Depository Shares (ADSs), which represent ownership in the shares of a foreign company, but trade on US exchanges. No securities were purchased directly on any foreign exchange. Fisher Investments client service representative told me that the reason Fisher Investments purchases ADRs and ADSs instead of the underlying securities is that it is the most cost effective way for their clients to own these companies. That may well be, but there are also many more worthwhile foreign companies that do not trade on any US exchange and owning shares in some of these could greatly benefit Fisher Investments clients. Filtering out foreign companies simply on the basis of them not being available on US exchanges, appears to defeat the goal of going international.
The Pink Sheets: The "Fisher penalty" would be even larger on low trading volume positions, such as the 5 Pink Sheets ADRs/ADSs that Fisher Investments included in my portfolio. These were actually purchased for my account at an average of 3.79% above their December 20th closing prices! No wonder. As of December 31st Fisher Investments controlled almost 5 million shares of the Pink Sheet traded BASFY, almost 5 times as many as the next largest holder, and about 80 times this Pink Sheet's average daily volume. Another one of the Fisher Investments Pink Sheet favorites, FJTSY, on average trades about 11 thousand shares a day, yet Fisher Investments controlled more than 2.5 million shares of it as of December 31st. Yet another one, CHEUY trades under 130 thousand shares a day, yet Fisher Investments controlled almost 17 million shares of it. Some days, these stocks have zero volume and on other days, much of their volume should be coming from Fisher Investments transactions. That would make them rather illiquid and their true market price, difficult to ascertain. So, why does Fisher Investments like these Pink Sheets enough to pay a larger premium for them? The most likely explanation is that it is far easier for Fisher Investments to deal with these Pink Sheets, than with the underlying securities trading on different continents, in different time zones, in different currencies, subject to different laws and perhaps even requiring different software to transact. So, who cares that it negatively impacts portfolio performance in the short term? It is a small price to pay for owning stock in such great companies and long term it will not matter, or so Fisher Investments would like you to believe.
Diversification: Out of the 69 total positions that were purchased for my accounts by Fisher Investments, the largest individual stock position was just over 3% of the portfolio, the smallest about 0.5%. Fisher Investments says that they put a large number of positions in every portfolio in order to properly represent the world / industry allocations that they are targeting. Of course, another good reason for diversification is that it tends to reduce volatility when the various components are weakly correlated and ensures that a single bad pick is not disastrous to overall portfolio performance. But while a 0.5% position in a large cap stock makes sense for an index fund and large actively managed mutual funds, adding it to relatively small actively managed separate accounts seems rather pointless. It is virtually guaranteed to not significantly impact portfolio results. Aggressive diversification with smaller accounts increases costs and appears to say that Fisher Investments is afraid to be wrong and thus is not willing to make any big bets on any specific individual stocks.
Dollar-cost averaging: Fisher Investments Client Owner Manual claims that dollar-cost averaging generates lower returns on average than the lump sum approach. Long term, markets do go up, so there is no doubt that given a statistically large number of investors acting over a long period of time, on average they will achieve better results with lump sum investments. So why is dollar-cost averaging being religiously preached by most of the industry gurus? Shorter term markets can and do turn bear for months and even years at a time. Investment legend of our time, Warren Buffet, when asked about his secret for success, said that he only has two rules. "Rule No.1: Never lose money. Rule No.2: Never forget rule No.1." Nobody can reliably predict when the next bear will roar and for how long. Accidentally investing a lump sum at a market peak can lead to a financial disaster, while dollar-cost averaging can reduce the risk of a large loss. In any case, Fisher Investments would not dollar-cost average and it is too early to tell whether Fisher Investments lump sum approach would have worked out in my case. However, with the market down significantly in January, so far, it looks highly unlikely.
The world of change: Lately, when looking at longer term performance results I have been breaking them down and looking at performance before 2001 very differently from the way I look at the more current numbers. There are numerous good reasons for doing this. Globalization, political and economic changes made the world we live in much different from only 10 – 15 years ago. Foreign markets have emerged where none have existed before. Just consider the BRICs (Brazil, Russia, India, China) - these markets only really became accessible after the turn of the century! In the 1990s, US economy was strong (and the only one that mattered, at least for those of us living here), budget deficit seemed to be under control, US dollar was strong too and spirits high, as the dot com boom churned out new millionaires daily. All that changed in what now seems like a flash. In reality it was a long and natural chain of events that culminated in 2001 with the tech bubble having just burst, US inaugurating the newly "unelected president," who wasn't nearly as charming as his predecessor and thus unable to keep the eyes of interns and the world focused on matters of less than global importance. And then finally the shock of 9/11. Only five short years later, according to World Bank, US economy constituted less than 20% of the world's (in international dollars). According to a recent newsletter article I read, Standard & Poor’s 500 Index companies today derive 49% of their revenue from foreign markets and that’s up from just 30% in 2001! In the meantime the US dollar declined precipitously against most other foreign currencies. It certainly is a different world that we live in now. These days to measure portfolio performance we can not rely on the old worn out tape measure with inches barely showing. We must replace it with a brand spanking new technologically advanced "made in China" metric device. This is why I measure portfolio performance against the S&P 500 Index prior to the turn of the century and against MSCI World Index for the more recent time period.
Long Term Fisher Investments Performance: (Note: Fisher Investments did not provide me with performance data beyond Q3 of 2007.) Fisher Investments cumulative results from 1995 to Q3 2007 look good vs. both the MSCI World Index and the S&P 500 Index. However, this is but one way to measure performance. Let's dissect and consider other starting and ending points, for one never knows where along the performance curve a particular investor will enter. This more granular approach to analyzing the data will also provide further insight into Fisher Investments strengths and weaknesses. As we have already mentioned, the world was of little consequence to US investors in the 90s. Back then hardly anyone paid attention to the MSCI World Index and S&P 500 Index consistently outperformed it every quarter (except one) from at least the start of 1995 to the middle of 1999. Performances of the two indexes flipped flopped over the next four years until a new clear winner the MSCI World Index emerged in the second half of 2003. Since then it has consistently outperformed the S&P 500 Index. Of course, index performance is only a reflection of the changes taking place in the world and those who paid attention, by the time 2001 rolled around, already knew that "the world" could no longer be ignored. Kenneth Fisher, was certainly one of those in the know and this can be plainly see through the prism of his articles in Forbes. This makes for an even stronger case for measuring Fisher Investments performance against the S&P 500 before the turn of the century and against MSCI World Index after.
Fisher Investments did reasonably well in their first 6 years of managing individual investors money, growing their clients accounts by 197.4%, but they lagged behind the S&P 500, which returned 219.4% over the same time period. Then in 2001, Fisher Investments pulled nothing short of a miracle: they timed the market and won, turning in 3.2% return in the year when virtually every index and mutual fund produced double digit losses. This amazing feet earned Fisher Investments recognition and high accolades throughout the financial world. Yet, even these miraculous results fell short of one of the Fisher Investments goals for bear markets, as stated in their Client Owner's Manual, to "beat cash and perhaps fixed income alternatives." In any case, they were not able to repeat this performance the following year, instead underperforming both the MSCI World and the S&P 500 Index in 2002. In fact, according to the Fisher Investments quarterly data, over the last six years from 9/30, 2001 to 9/30, 2007 Fisher Investments accounts gained 58.4%, lagging behind both the S&P 500 Index gain of 63.1% and the MSCI World Index gain of 95.1%.
Fisher's darkest 5 months: When I evaluate mutual funds' past performance, in addition to the usual parameters, I also like to see how they did during the most difficult times. It is no different for private money managers, like Fisher Investments. For Fisher, as for so many others, the worst annualized performance in absolute terms came as the technology bubble deflated in 2002. From the charts Fisher Investments provides, it is apparent that in the five months from the beginning of May to October, Fisher Investments Global Total Return clients lost more than 30% of their account values. Certainly not the kind of performance I expected from the "best money manger" under any circumstances. But how does this compare with performance of mutual funds I gave up in moving to Fisher Investments, with Ken Fisher's PURIX and it's world fund competitors? The table below shows mutual fund performance during the darkest five months of 2002 and from December 20th, 2007 to January 25th, 2008.
| Indexes | 12/20/2007 - 1/25/08 | 5/9/2002- 10/9/2002 |
| MSCI World Index | -7.6% | -26.0%* |
| S&P 500 Index | -7.4% | -27.6% |
| Source Money Funds | ||
| Fidelity Magellan Fund (FMAGX) | -10.3% | -26.4% |
| Fidelity Contrafund (FCNTX) | -9.9% | -12.0% |
| Dodge & Cox Stock (DODGX) | -9.3% | -26.5% |
| SSgA S&P 500 Index (SVSPX) | -8.8% | -27.2% |
| Fidelity Growth & Income (FGRIX) | -7.8% | -20.5% |
| Nicholas (NICSX) | -7.4% | -23.5% |
| American Funds EuroPacific Gr R5 (RERFX) | -6.5% | N/A** |
| E*Trade Savings Account | +0.5%* | +0.6%* |
| Competing Category Funds | ||
| Vanguard Global Equity Fund (VHGEX) | -9.6% | -26.0% |
| Purisima Total Return (PURIX) | -9.5% | -30.2% |
| Fidelity Worldwide Fund (FWWFX) | -9.4% | -26.9% |
* Estimate, precise data for the exact time period in the table is not readily available.
** American Funds EuroPacific Growth, the best performing non money market fund of the group, during the most recent market decline, didn't exist until June 2002.
In the 2002 time frame, Kenneth Fisher's PURIX fund decidedly stands out as the group's laggard, while the leader of the pack is the Morningstar five star rated Fidelity Contrafund (FCNTX). A closer look shows that Contrafund is one of the very few funds that long term and consistently has been able to achieve Fisher Investments' top two goals for bear markets, as spelled out in their Client Owner Manual: 1) reduce risk consistent with portfolio theory and 2) beat the equity benchmark. Fisher Investments doesn't always have problems achieving these goals. However, they have not been able to do so consistently and 2002 is just one example, when they have failed especially badly.
Modern portfolio theory: So, what does it mean to reduce risk consistent with portfolio theory? Modern portfolio theory postulates that risk is closely related to volatility. It defines a measure known as the portfolio's Beta (β) coefficient, which is portfolio's volatility relative to an appropriate index multiplied by the correlation of the portfolio to the index performance. Risk free returns (i.e. treasury yields) during the time period are usually subtracted from both sets of numbers before making the calculation. The theory also defines an Alpha (α) coefficient as the risk-adjusted measure of portfolio's "excess return" over the index. This makes α a good indication of portfolio manager's effectiveness. Using this nomenclature, a β of less than one indicates a portfolio, which is less volatile than the market represented by the index, while β of greater than one reveals a more volatile portfolio. Also an α of greater than zero, indicates that the actively managed portfolio's return is that much better than could have been expected simply based on the amount of risk assumed by portfolio's manager, while a negativeα suggests that you should perhaps look for a more talented manager.
Google Finance provides these standard parameters for most mutual funds. Fidelity's Contrafund sports a β coefficient of less than one for 3, 5 and 10 year time frames, while also showing a respectable α coefficient, beating expectations by 1.44% over the past three years, 4.27% over 5 years and 4.64% over 10 years, on average. One yearβ for this fund indicates 16% above market risk, higher than it was historically, indicating that the manager felt it prudent to take additional risks over the past year. Looks like he was right in doing so, as his strategy brought even higher returns to the fund holders, beating expectations by 9.66%. Now, let's see how this compares with Purisima Total Return fund, which we are using as a proxy for Fisher Investments performance. The 10 year β for PURIX is quite comparable to FCNTX, however its α, while still very good, is considerably lower, beating expectations by only 2.10% a year on average. Things get significantly worse for PURIX over 3 and 5 year time frames, when the fund assumed close to market risk only to produce an α of -2.98% over 3 years and -4.65% over 5 years. Over the past year PURIX assumed slightly above market risk and produced returns 0.58% above expectations. (Thus over 10, 5, 3 and 1 years FCNTX beat PURIX based on cumulative risk adjusted returns by 28.5%, 53.3%, 13.9% and 9.1%, respectively.) Note especially large discrepancy in five year returns. In large part it is attributable to PURIX sub par performance in 2002 and the stellar performance by FCNTX over that time period. Indeed, this is probably the reason that PURIX currently has the lowest five year risk adjusted performance of all the funds in our table, including the one star Morningstar rated Nicholas fund!
When I told my Fisher Investments investment counselor that I expect any money manager that I hire to build and manage a portfolio that has a β coefficient of less than one and an α coefficient greater than zero he sneered "and where are you going to find that?!" Well, that's what people hire money managers for - to consistently get them better than market returns with lower than market volatility. If a Fisher Investments investment counselor doesn't even realize that this is possible, I better stick with a mutual fund like FCNTX, which has consistently done exactly this for years, or go to an index fund or look for another money manager that can deliver the alpha that I seek!
Fisher Investments Advisory Fees: Fisher Investments standard fee for clients with $500,000 - $1,000,000 in assets under management is 1.25%. This is 0.25% above what appears to be the industry standard for this size accounts. Nevertheless, it would still be reasonable had it not been for rather poor past performance implied for Fisher Investments accounts by the above analysis, the "Fisher penalty" previously discussed, the higher relative commission costs for smaller positions and perhaps most importantly, availability of viable lower cost alternatives. Also, in what appears to be a rather unusual move, Fisher Investments starts the fee clock from the date of account signing, rather than from the date they begin trading in your account. Be aware that in some cases a significant amount of time may pass between these two dates. Fisher Investments sales people may assure you that if it takes "too long," they would change the effective date. To help avoid problems down the road, you should get such promises in writing.
Fisher Investments contracts specify an early termination fee of $1,000. These contracts also have a clause: "Any and all Advisory Fees paid to FISHER will be returned to the Client if this agreement is terminated during the first (30) days." However, Pamela, a sales person at the Denver office previously confirmed that Fisher Investments does not levy this fee and it is only written into the contract to deter people from abusing Fisher Investments. She also confirmed that the early termination fee is considered to be an advisory fee for the purposes of the above clause. That didn't stop Fisher Investments from attempting to collect $1,000 from each of my two accounts, which according to additional documents I signed were to be managed as one. The only reason they did not succeed in collecting the money directly from the custodian, was because I switched custodians immediately after canceling with Fisher Investments. They persisted by sending me bills, which I promptly sent back to them with short notes.
Conclusion: Despite their claims to the contrary, Fisher Investments appears to be too large of an organization to give each client the personalized account servicing they deserve. Apparently, instead of concentrating their efforts on first rate stock research and implementing stock trading strategies to benefit their individual client needs, Fisher Research uses their massive resources to build and maintain a well oiled, flashy and bureaucratic marketing machine that functions similar to a worldwide mutual fund, but with less regulation, higher expenses and less predictable results than low cost mutual funds. Fisher Investments has delivered mediocre results for their clients throughout the 13 year history of their Private Client Group. A big exception to this was their amazing call to stay out of the market and/or hedge in 2001. As a result of that call they also missed the steep market decline immediately following the tragedy of 9/11. Those who believe in miracles and truly think that Fisher Investments will be able to time the market around the next disaster, I recommend sticking with Fisher Investments. The rest of us will likely be better of going with a more consistent money manager. People with nontaxable retirement accounts and with smaller taxable accounts, should also consider investing in a low cost Mutual Fund, such as the Fidelity Contrafund, which by consistently beating indexes, outperformed Fisher Investments over the past ten years, without resorting to market timing.
Other suggested readings on Fisher Investments:
Business Week: Hype From A Financial Guru?
The Wall Street Journal: Define Aggressive: Fisher Sales And Marketing Practices
CNN Money: Fisher sues Wachovia for sales exec hire
Reuters: Fisher Investments sues former employees
Investment News: Fisher Investments eyes a centralized roll-up
Guru Focus: Kenneth Fisher
Purisima Total Return Fund (PURIX) Prospectus
PR Log: Fisher Investments Strikes Against Former Client - a Newspaper Publisher
The Wall Street Journal: How Fisher, Ex-Workers Handle Divorce - Money Manager Sues Its Former Employees Over Data on Clients
Salon.com: Are we too gloomy about the economy?
russian restaurant mistake
ok I'm sorry. I didnt realize I'm only supposed to comment on this company. I was only interested in russian community. I was confused because i thought this was a russian community site. My problem is I don't read Russian or write it (my wife says i can't write English either. jokes) very good anymore and the only thing in English here is on invstmnets. I don't know Baraban.com it seems like its just for dating and girls. I don't think that's what I want. If this isnt for russian community is there another site you reccommend? For things like restauarants and recipes. thanks jake. sorry again. DC.
Baraban.Com is a community
Baraban.Com is not for dating and girls - it is an online community for Russian-speakers, many of whom live or are familiar with Denver. This is a site of Odesskiy Listok newspaper. Nobody that frequents this site can reasonably help you. I suggest that you follow my original suggestion.
Russian restaurant?
My babushka is coming to visit me in Cheyenne! 79 years young. First time ever to the United States. She comes to see for first time her four great grandchildren. (two are mine two are my sister's)
We go to visit my sister who lives in Denver I think close to where you liive. Do you know of good authentic Russian resturants in Denver? I want my grandmama to know we are eating fine here. She makes the best pirozkhki and blini so it must be very good and very authentic. It does not need to be fancy. In fact better if it isn't/
Do you have suggestions for Restaurants? maybe also that play music too. if not, we will try to make Russian food at home but my sister is no chef and my wife isnt Russian. Jake i think you know Russian community, so maybe you have good suggestions. thanks. DC
Fisher Investments: Off Topic
Your comment is totally off Fisher Investments topic. If you would like to get some suggestions on Russian food in Denver, please try posting your question on Baraban.Com help forum. I do not frequent Denver Russian restaurants and have no suggestions for you.
Fisher Investments: Forbes - No Comments
If you follow Kenneth Fisher's Forbes Magazine column online, you too have probably noticed an increasingly negative tone of reader comments posted in response to Ken's monthly "wisdom" bytes. Forbes' past efforts to close down the floodgates on Fisher-bashing have included all of the usual. Removal of "offensive" comments and of all comments from "undesirable" users, as well as blocking of the undesirables and of their IPs have been Forbes tools of choice in their fight with infidels on behalf of Fisher.
Fisher Investments, apparently, has been grateful to Forbes for all the tireless censorship and has flooded Forbes online with a steady stream of advertising. These days, it is tough to miss a Fisher Investments ad while surfing the Forbes Internet site, with some pages serving up not one, but two (!) full size Fisher Investments display ads.
With all this Fisher being crammed down Forbes readers' throats, I was starting to wonder if this flood of ads was, in fact, a sign of gratitude, or something entirely different – Fisher's desperate attempt to recruit and retain clients. Additional credence to this new thought was given by a slew of Fisher Investments ads that started to appear on other financial websites. Are these ads all new, or am I suddenly paying more attention to anything Fisher?
A friend, who manages money for a living, mentioned that his company was approached by Fisher to be acquired. Then, an anonymous caller suggested to me that Fisher Investments needs a steady flow of new clients in order to do well. Acquiring new clients during times like these is especially difficult. It must be even more so for Fisher Investments. Under the circumstances a much increased ad budget is almost a certainty.
But let's get back to Forbes online. In what appears to be a last ditch effort to save face of their prized advertiser, and just in time for Ken Fisher's April column, Forbes disabled commenting for Fisher's columns altogether. (Of course, you can still comment on articles by other authors, just not on Fisher's "gems.") Worse yet, all the comments that have been there for years are now gone, as well. The disabled feedback mechanism is especially sad, considering that Kenneth Fisher's latest Forbes article, "Dear Abby" is a feeble attempt to put a positive spin on all the negative feedback to his previous columns.
Fisher Performance
All I know is that my family invested 1mm with FI in 1995 and the account is now worth around 4.5-5.0mm today.
Where are you going to go and find this type of management especially through that bear market period in 2000?
Here is some additional context to this discussion of FI and unhappy clients:
http://www.investmentadvisor.com/article.php?article=7747
Fisher Investments - Early Years
According to Fisher Investments, they only had one client and managed $2M in assets in 1995. Please allow me to congratulate you, if your family was in fact that one client! But it sounds like you started with $2M and not $1M, which would imply a very mediocre 7% average annual return. Also, Fisher Investments performance when they had $2M under management is of little relevance now that they reportedly have 20,000 times that amount to manage and thousands of clients. The ballgame is quite different now.
P.S. The link you provided reads like a promo piece for FI. It is an article in an industry magazine whose sole business it is to advertise investment advisers. How can you expect them to provide impartial information on their advertisers? In any case, there is no discussion of unhappy clients - only the company claim that their termination rate is very low.
Fisher Investments: This is on the money
I've seen a couple of Fisher portfolios and they were identical. It was from a few years back. They had to pull old performance numbers because they were based on a couple of old institutional accounts they managed. Don't know if that was because they were told to or felt worried. I heard that Fisher was on a free cruise in the summer of 2002 with lots of folk from Forbes magazine. He was in cash which was a great call but rang from the boat and put billions in the market after listening to what the Forbes people were saying about the market being at the bottom. It fell like a stone when he went back and there were big losses like 25 or 30 percent or so.
The sales guy said they sent out tens of millions of letters to get business. It's funny if you look at some other blogs, postings from the Fisher guys jump out - they all say the same stuff. Like this one:
Posted by: william | Feb 9, 2006 3:23:32 PM
You seem to be saying they have false performance figures. An editor's note in the Biz Week article Ted referred to above says the S.E.C. conducted an inquiry that led to no enforcement action. I assume they looked into performance figures.
(from The Big Picture Blog)
Yeah right - so you don't work at Fisher, William?
Fisher won't be a billionaire if you buy an ETF, but you won't pay lots of fees and might make some money.
Fisher Investments: Many Good "Managers"
There are many good managers, but its not likely you will find them just doing the internet surf.Personal service is also difficult via the internet.Look at legacy financial advisors inc. (lfsadvisors.com) They have offices in CA-MA-FLA-NJ-and many other states. No one can warranty investment performance, so the best you can hope for is a 34 year track record of great service and total advice capabilities.
Fisher Investments - Portfolio Management
"Aggressive diversification with smaller accounts increases costs and appears to say that Fisher Investments is afraid to be wrong and thus is not willing to make any big bets on any specific individual stocks."
This comment shows a lack of understanding of portfolio management strategies and concepts. The concept of active portfolio management is to beat the stated benchmark over a long term period whether or not the manager can do that for you. When a portfolio is actively managed in this capacity, the manager normally determines over and underweights on sectors and countries represented in the benchmark in order to position the portfolio according to their macroeconomic thoughts. Thus, giving the investor the best probability of beating the benchmark. The fact that you saw some 0.5% positions in your portfolio is because it probably represented sector and country underweights. ALL PORTFOLIO MANAGERS ARE AFRAID TO BE WRONG! When a PM takes an overweight bet, its a common understanding to build a methodology to circumvent the risk. This is to protect you.
It seems the crux of your argument is based on market volatility. Had the subprime situation and resultant credit crunch not dragged down world markets, would you have pulled your money out of FI? I doubt it; even with the higher trading costs associated with their size. A volatile market is not the fault of the manager. In the end, Fisher Investments is an equity manager ONLY. They do not have the capability to create diversified portfolios in any other asset class. So, given positive or negative volatility, they are going to keep your money in the equity markets at all costs because that's how they make money. Your due diligence should have caught that they are an equity only manager and you would have been better served to keep some money in fixed income while hiring Fisher to manage your equity exposure.
Fisher Investments - PM Reply
Dear Anonymous,
You seem to reiterate Fisher Investments arguments quite well. However, it doesn't appear that you have read or else read, but did not understand the points I make in the article.
I did not hire Fisher Investments to allocate among sectors. I can do that myself much easier and at a much lower cost without them.
I came to Fisher Investments, because they told me that they could save me from loosing money in bear markets. Yet, with the portfolio they built, I didn't see how they could do anything but loose money and that's exactly what they did, with their biggest losses in stocks that I immediately called to identify as loosing propositions.
I did not make the decision to fire them based on volatility, but rather based it on their current stock selections and analysis of their long term performance, which I found to be lagging.
Hope this helps you understand the issues a bit better...
P.S. While you (and the rest of the world) realize that US is facing major economic challenges due, at least in part, to the so called "credit crunch," Ken Fisher from his home in the land of the fruits, the nuts and the vegetables (otherwise known as California) continues to ask, "what credit crunch?"
Fisher Investments - PM reply to the reply
I do understand your points very well. You said you fired them because of current stock selection and long term performance. The reality is that any stock selection strategy will be down in this environment and you would have fired any equity manager who is still in the market. So, this has everything to do with the downward volatility experienced in the equity markets. What would be an appropriate stock selection strategy in this environment? How would you structure an all equity portfolio in this market? As a professional in this industry, I would be interested in your response.
As far as long term performance, I do not know Fisher's performance history so I can only assume that your analysis is complete.
Fisher Investments - What They Did Wrong
Dear Anonymous,
Your assumption that I would have fired any money manager is incorrect. I fired a money manager, who thought it was prudent to buy LEH, UBS, MOT, SI, CSC, CHL, SNE, MRK and HUM at the end of December; all of these could be had today for 20% to 40% lower than what Fisher Investments paid to ad them to my portfolio.
I fired a money manager who told me that they could save me from a bear market, yet after hiring them, I found out that this same money manager in mid May 2002 turned bullish just as markets started falling, decimating their current client portfolios by over 30% in just 5 months.
I believe that paying better attention to individual stock valuations, buying in gradually, only on dips, avoiding financials entirely and concentrating on only the strongest companies in every sector would have allowed Fisher Investments to turn in better than index performance. Their selections, on the other hand, lagged (and in my opinion will continue to lag) relevant indexes.
Fisher Investments - What They Did Wrong Reply
So, would you have stayed with a manager whose stock picking/trading strategy you agreed with but was down 10-12% in your first weeks/month of trading? How do you know they weren't positioning you to benefit when markets turned back? Investing is a long term thing and all managers wouldn't meet your standards if you only gave them a month or two.
Last post. Thanks for the conversation.
Fisher Investments - Last Anonymous Reply
Yes, I would and did exactly that when I last hired a money manager in August of 2001.
Fisher Investments - Great Long Term
Today, we have received the following anonymous article comment, posted on another blog site. (Spelling has been corrected.)
Your analysis is flawless, but irrelevant. To make an assessment of any stock portfolio in ONE MONTH as opposed to several years is like trying to manage on bad data. The time frame is way too short. I have been with Fisher for almost four years and the results have been very acceptable as a long term investment. If you are not willing to see the kinds of short term temporary fluctuations in the market that you experienced, you should probably put your money in US Backed bonds. Our four year experience has yielded double digit compound annual growths which were right in line with our original goals.
The person who made this comment most obviously missed the point that I judged not the short term performance, but the methodology that contrary to Fisher Investments marketing claims is highly unlikely to protect investors during bear markets.
Previous four years have brought us a raging bull market. At times like this, making money is a snap. Bear markets, however, require a very different strategy. Switching between bull and bear modes is virtually impossible for a $45 Billion money manager, such as Fisher Investments, even if this would be the right thing to do for their clients. Remember that in December 2000, when Fisher Investments last went bearish, they only had $3 Billion under management.
From a Fisher Investments client
First of all, I used to be a stockbroker, but gave that up to be a stay at home mom, so I have some experience in this business.
I have been a Fisher Investments client since 1999 and have been very happy. However, the salesperson I met with was a very non-pushy woman named Judy. She was happy to show me their performance and even pointed out that in a particular quarter in '98 or about a year before I signed up their portfolios were down about 13%, but then recovered all of it shortly. (I think she would have given me their performance anyway, but why did you wait until AFTER you signed up to look at it?) She told me that unless I wanted to stay for the long term, don't even sign up because these short term swings can happen any time. They aren't going to try to time every correction along the way, because that is impossible, but will try to get out of the big ones
Maybe you aren't the right client for them, but I can't believe you would be so short sighted to only give them a few weeks. I don't care if it is Fisher Investments, a mutual fund, or a financial planner, or god forbid, me when I was a broker.
Your comments about showing Fisher Investments versus some of the big mutual funds is funny. It reminds me of how I was taught to try to get new clients in as a broker. With the benefit of hindsight I was able to point out the best performing mutual funds in any time period. Take any time period and you can find credible funds that did a lot better than anything your client had. Not the real world however.
But, to be fair, Fisher isn't perfect. They do keep in contact with me as often as I like. They have client seminars once a year, but they have grown to be big hotel events. They also have changed my contact person quite often, but usually after a while I don't care. Also, as you mentioned, they did get into the market too early and got hammered in the last part of 2002. I complained, and like you, thought I needed to get out. However, my contact person kept me in and I rode up the next up cycle. I think if I was on my own I would have bailed out and then never would have gotten back in.
Reply to a Fisher Investments Client
There are certainly people that would be happy with average asset allocating money managers. I am not one of these people and this is not the service I bargained for or was sold.
It was stupid of me not to ask for Fisher Investments detailed performance numbers before investing with them. I trusted them to do the right thing, but as soon as I saw what they were actually buying, I knew that it was not going to work for me and this is the reason I left them.
I did not compare Fisher Investments against random Mutual Funds. I compared them only against the two Indexes that they track, mutual funds that I was invested in before giving money to Fisher Investments and the two largest low cost World Mutual Funds.
Fisher Investments: Allegedly Lied to Client
After Fisher Investments filed legal action against me in retaliation for publishing this blog, Odesskiy Listok sent out a press release:
Fisher Investments Strikes Against Former Client - a Newspaper Publisher Author - Baraban.Com Odesskiy Listok. Here is a letter we received from Bob Scott, a former Fisher Investments client in response to the press release.
I am glad you published this. Fisher Investments lied to me - telling me when I first met with them, that they had no record of past performance, then tried to blame me, claiming that I had lied about what they had told me.. But, as I pointed out to them, what reason, what motive would I have to lie about what their salesman said?
Glad I got out from working with them ......
And yes, I am a human..
These people are crooks..
Your piece may help drive them out of business. and help others from becoming their victims..
Fisher Investments: Just a Rant
No offense, but it really sounds like you are crying because you lost your money and nothing more. I am in the financial services industry (not with FI and never have before) and I've seen performance of the biggest money managers flop big time over the course of couple months recently. I mean the household names have lost 10-15% in course of just few months...
I'm not sure what your investment objective is, but if you are a type of a person that freaks out because your down 11% in just few days and pulls it out, you probably should have never been in that type of investment to begin with... You should have just stuck with CDs and MMF...
If you expect to beat the index... if your objective is to earn 10% a year, then you gotta take into consideration that your portfolio is more volatile then the market and will lose more in market conditions such as what we are facing now...
The fact is, you put your money in the middle of subprime mess where in January I believe we had the worst 5 days to begin the year in history of the market in 2008. The economy is not very good right now... The market is not very good right now... We are in uncharted territory with some of the most dependable securities as well... ARS and ARPS, which is $330 Billion market, in 20 years of it history, the auction for that market if failing, despite the fact that those are AAA rated products... Something like that has never happened before...
I understand your frustration. I understand that since you are having your money managed professionally, that you expected a better result despite the market conditions... But the truth is, more than 90% of CFA that are out there can't even beat the index and the job of a money manager is really to allocate your assets to diversify your risk ACCORDING TO YOUR INVESTMENT OBJECTIVE and to help your money grow for LONG TERM.. not 11 days or whatever you had with FI...
Fisher Investments: Misleading Sales, Advertising & Marketing
I didn't go with the 90% of CFAs that can't beat indexes. (Why would I do such a silly thing?). I went with Fisher Investments that advertise their CEO's amazing market timing ability. They make a big point of it, for example, through the "A Decade Of Market Calls" brochure.
I found Fisher Investments sales techniques to be highly aggressive and marketing exceptionally deceptive. I was slowly pulling money out of the market on bounces, since October 2007. Fisher Investments sales people persuaded me to let them manage this money by telling me that Ken Fisher was very bullish at the time and by making me naively believe that Fisher will know to get out of the markets in time to avoid losses.
Like so many others, I was trusting and stupid enough not to analyze Fisher Investments past performance to confirm the claimed forecasting genius of Kenneth Fisher. Once I did the analysis, it became very apparent that Fisher Investments only timed the market correctly in 2001 and luckily avoid the aftermath of 9/11 in the process. It appears that the success of the Fisher Investments enterprise rests fully on that 2001 performance and aggressive sales and marketing. Fisher Investments then failed miserably the very next year by investing in May of 2002, virtually a day before the market started its 5 month 25%+ slide.
I believe that Fisher Investments inaccurate sales and marketing claims of Kenneth Fisher's past and implied future market timing abilities are in direct violation of their fiduciary duty towards their clients, as outlined in the The Investment Advisers Act of 1940, Section 206.
I have no problem with money managers who simply allocate assets to diversify risk, as long as they tell you that this is what they do. Personally, I have no use for such a service and this is not what Fisher Investments was selling in any case.
Fisher Investments Performance
Check out FI's 95 and 96 performance (read the disclaimers on their composite). 1 account in '95?! The performance correlates a hell of a lot better with the S&P 500; same with '96.
I wonder how many foreign stocks they had - sounds like a benchmark shift that juiced their numbers even more.
Why did you close your account after only 2½ weeks?
Jake, The letter from Fisher indidates that you closed your account 2½ weeks after opening it. Without risking legal action from Fisher, can you explain why you decided to close the account so quickly?
Fisher Investments: Account Closed
This answer may not make much sense out of context, but basically I quickly realized that Fisher Investments ideas of what constitutes a good investment did not match my own. Then I requested that Fisher Investments send me monthly historical performance data in electronic form and instead received quarterly data by overnight delivery. I looked at that data and was unimpressed by what I judged to be inconsistent performance. This confirmed my decision.
Fisher Investments: Please Don't Fold
Please don't fold on Fisher's threat of legal action - you have until at least the 19th.
Re: Fisher Investments - Fishing for Business
[Your address omitted in this posting]
Dear Mr. Berzon,
This letter is to request that you delete your Internet postings regarding Fisher Investments ("Fisher"), including http://www.odessapage.com/new/en/fisher-investments and your Wikipedia post because they contain false and defamatory statements of fact about Fisher. This letter is also to request that you issue a retraction.
As you know, you were a client of Fisher for only 11 trading days from December 20, 2007 until January 7, 2008, when you closed your account. You, not Fisher, controlled the accounts thereafter, and certainly not on Friday, January 25, 2008. Your statement in Fisher Investments–Fishing for Busniess (sic) that: "A month later, as of the close of market on Friday, January 25th accounts Fisher Investments managed for me lost 11.8% of their value. . . ." is false and misleading because it implies Fisher still managed your account on that day, and that the loss can be attributed to Fisher’s management of the account. The statements you provide throughout the posting are based upon this false statement and, therefore, these statements are also false and defamatory. See Milkovich v. Lorain Journal Co., 497 U.S. 1 (1990).
There are many other demonstrably false statements, such as: "No securities were purchased on any foreign exchange," "Every portfolio Fisher Investment manages for the same objective contains the same stocks in the same proportions," "Furthermore, Fisher portfolios lost over 30% of their value in just 5 months from their peak in May 2002 to their trough in October 2002." As a result, your "analysis" that follows is false and defamatory. Your claim that Fisher’s performance numbers are "doctored" is defamatory.
Also, you had a contractual obligation to pay $1,000 for each account (a total of $2,000) to cover account start-up expenses because you terminated your accounts within one year; therefore your statement that Fisher has attempted to collect $2,000 to which it was not entitled is also false and defamatory. There are numerous other false and defamatory statements in the postings, perhaps more false than true, which are intertwined with opinion so that the entire posting creates a false impression of fact.
In addition, your comments on Wikipedia which refer to the Odessa site repeat many of the false and defamatory statements on the Odessa site mandating that you also remove this posting and issue a retraction.
We request your confirmation that the postings will be deleted and a retraction issued by February 19, 2008. Failing this, we will turn this matter over to outside counsel.
Sincerely,
Fred Harring
Legal Counsel
p.s. Based on your Web posting history, we presumed you would post parts of this letter to your site. We are saving you this trouble by posting it ourselves and sending you a hard copy via overnight delivery.
Fisher Investments: More specifically
In the course of rewriting the original blog entry, I ran across two paragraphs that, when taken out of context, could have potentially been misinterpreted by some of our readers. In the following, additional text has been inserted in plain italic that should serve to clarify the situation and my opinions further. Text that has been removed is indicated in strike through
Background: I was expecting a baby (it arrived on Friday, January 18th, 2008), didn't have the time to manage money on my own and Fisher Investments was recommended by a trusted friend who started using them just a few months before and who was not a very savvy investor. After doing some checking on the Internet and asking around, I decided to give them a try. So I sold off various assets and transferred cash to a FI discretionary accounts at a custodians that Fisher Investments set up for me. All agreements were signed and accounts were 72% funded by December 19th. The other 28% of the funds hit the account on 12/27. Fisher Investments went to work almost immediately, investing approximately 1/6 of the total on December 21st, 24th, 26th, 27th and January 3rd and 4th. Very quickly I realized that Fisher Investments ideas of what constitutes a good investment did not match mine and I attempted to fire them on December 28th. They managed to convince me to stay on, but made no purchases on the four trading days between December 28th and January 2nd, as the result. In the meantime, I requested that Fisher Investments send me monthly historical performance data in electronic form, so that I can have some chance to analyze it and get a better idea of what I can expect in the future. I was told that such information was not available to clients and that quarterly data was being sent to me by overnight delivery. I was unimpressed, judging their quarterly performance data to be inconsistent vs. the MSCI World Index, which Fisher Investments uses as the benchmark. This coupled with unresponsiveness to my data requests confirmed my prior decision. By the morning of Monday, January 7th, I canceled my agreement with Fisher Investments and quickly moved my accounts from the Fisher Investments designated custodian to another brokerage. Being busy with the imminent birth of a child (she arrived on Friday, January 18th), I put these matters aside for the next three weeks... When I came back to look at my accounts over the last weekend in January, I was surprised to see that the ones built by Fisher Investments declined significantly more than the indexes. This motivated further research culminating in this article, which I sincerely hope will help others determine whether Fisher Investments is the right choice for their money management needs.
Results: A month later, as of the close of market on Friday, January 25th accounts Fisher Investments managed built for me lost 11.8% of their value, with the best performing stock pick up less than 4%, while the worst is down almost 35%. This compares to a 7.4% decline in the S&P 500, 7.6% decline in the MSCI World Index (index that Fisher Investments uses as their yardstick) and 5.1% decline for a smaller account I continue to manage on my own. All the above quoted performance numbers are relative to the 12/20/07 closing values, the day before Fisher began to actively manage my account. Fisher results include commissions on purchases, but exclude their management fees. Certainly not the kind of performance you want from your money manager! Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed and canceled my agreement with Fisher very quickly. Many positions were near their 52 week highs and trading at relatively high P/Es at the time when Fisher Investments added them to my accounts. Fisher Investments best performing stock pick was up less than 4%, while the worst - down almost 35% from December 20th, 2007 to January 25th, 2008. The 5 largest individual stock positions, representing approximately 13% of the initial total, were down over 19%. But the smallest 5 positions, representing approximately 3.5% of the initial total, were down less than 9%. It is rather doubtful that if I had allowed Fisher Investments to continue managing my accounts, the above described situation would have been appreciably different. These trends started to emerge right away.
Further qualifying the validity of performance numbers on January 25th, as I quoted them above is the following. Before I signed the last of the account paperwork in the middle of December I was very concerned that at the start of the year Fisher Investments would quickly change their mind and sell what they had just bought. My Fisher Investments investment counselor assured me that repositioning for the new year had already taken place. Earlier, Pam, a Fisher Investments Denver area sales person had quoted their portfolio turnover rate at around 20%. Thus, I could expect that Fisher Investments would have changed at most one position out of the 69 between January 7th and January 25th and that would have made virtually no difference on performance.
Also, since it appears that we can reliably use the Kenneth Fisher managed Purisima Total Return fund (PURIX) performance as a proxy for Fisher Investments performance (99.85% correlation in annual performance over 10 years), let's take a look at how it did over the same time period. Turns out that PURIX lost 9.5% of it's value from its close on December 20th, 2007 to the close on January 25th, 2007, with most of that loss (8.3%) occurring between January 7th and January 25th. However bad, that is still 2.3% better than the 11.8% loss my account experienced. The difference is explained by Fisher Investments purchasing securities not at the closing price on December 20th, 2007, but at prices (excluding commissions) on average 2.15% higher. Adding to that approximately 1/4 % spent on buy-in commissions and PURIX results match those achieved on my account to within 0.1%. Furthermore, the timing of the tail end 8.3% loss by PURIX, matches that of my account rather well.
Fisher Investments
Amazing!! You must have a lot of free time on your hands.
I don't normally waste my time on the nonsense that shows up on the blogs. I have been a Fisher investor since 2005 and my experience has been positive and communications has been good. Their approach to portfolio construction and management has been logical and reasonable. Most of the "facts" from your ramblings do not jibe with my own experience. Fisher advised me to invest for the long term. I understood the time frame to be in years, not weeks or days. You may be a victim of PDS (patience disorder syndrome) and may want to consult your practioner.
There are any number of trading packages advertised on TV and radio which can make you fabulously wealthy. On the other hand, if you don't like risk or volatility, put your money in treasury bills or CDs. You can probably stay even with inflation. In any event stay away from money managers and spare us from a continuing string of negative blogs!
There was, however, one particularly heartening item in this string. Someone advocated a class action lawsuit. Terrific. There aren't enough political positions available for the army of litigating lawyers and we need to keep them employed.
Fisher Investments: Reply to Bob
Bob, if there is anything specific that you want to disagree with in my original article on Fisher Investments or in anything else that I have written, I will be happy to defend my writing with additional facts. Simply saying that my "ramblings do not jibe with your own experience" and further referring me to a "practitioner," does not help the people who are reading this blog, make their investment decision.
Furthermore, I do not agree with all the posts which have followed my article. As far as I can tell, Kenneth Fisher is a great businessman, runs his business quite well and is very careful not to overstep the legal boundaries. However, that doesn't mean that somebody would not be successful in suing him. There are plenty of precedents, were full service brokerages (Merill Lynch immediately comes to mind) were ordered by the courts to make their clients accounts whole. It is not up to me to judge the merit of a class action lawsuit against Fisher Investments.
Fisher Investments
It just so happens that I just left my first sales meeting with the Fisher rep. (And THEN read this thread as a result of a little Google action looking for critical opinions about Fisher to see if there WERE any.) I have this question for Jake or anyone else. Who else do you recommend? I mean it. I want someone to manage my pension account for at least the next 6 years. Who do I go to?
Straight out. Give me names. Be specific. Please. I'm not saying that using someone lame is smart even if there is no one else. But Fisher can't be the only game in town. (Effective money manager who is NOT an investment banker or brokerage firm with other stuff they want to sell that is in conflict with my best interests.)
Also, like another person who posted, I don't understand the bit about lack of performance info. Annualized returns are published in his book. Are they incorrect or misleading? Please let me know. These are not rhetorical questions. I really do want to know if Fisher is lying to me.
I am VERY suspicious of the level of marketing they pursue. It puts Ginzo knives to shame. They use every low level marketing gimmick in the book. And they have a HUGE overhead to pay for.
Paul
PS The bit about them just setting up the account and then ignoring IS disturbing. Seems to me that in a portfolio of 65 or so positions that periodic corrections are required.
Fisher Investments Alternatives
Please understand that I am a newspaper publisher and not in the business of recommending Money Managers, nor am I a Financial Adviser, so I can only give you my personal opinions and not recommendations. BTW, I expected Fisher Investments to be "the best" and that's why I went to them in the first place. Once I had more data - I knew that I made the wrong choice. So, what now?
For a retirement account that is not subject to annual taxation, such as 401K, IRA and etc. (which sounds like what you have), I suggest you consider a Mutual Fund and not at all a money manager. Since you have a limited time horizon - 6 years, you should not risk going 100% into a World Mutual Fund, but go with a balanced approach, instead. Look for a low cost family of funds. I like Vanguard, Fidelity and Dodge & Cox, but there are many others out there, which would suit your needs. Also, since it does not sound like you are going to be comfortable rebalancing your own portfolio as you near retirement, you should consider a targeted date retirement fund such as the Vanguard Target Retirement 2015 Fund (VTXVX). With only 6 years to retirement and all your funds being in a retirement account, you should not even be considering going to Fisher Investments - you are exactly the guy that they should not be targeting with their sleek marketing campaign.
As far as alternative money managers are concerned, I have only used one in 2001 - 2002. My experience with him over that year was far superior to the brief encounter with Fisher Investments. His name is Michael Haykin (Aurora, CO) and he has been in the business for almost 30 years now. The reason I did not go with him this time, is because he is a one man shop and I expected much more from Fisher Investments. Also, for the January issue of Odesskiy Listok, I have interviewed another money manager in the Denver area - Vitaliy Katsenelson. He is much younger and more active than Haykin, writes precipitously for many serious financial publications, has just published a book "Active Value Investing," teaches at the University of Colorado at Denver, Graduate School of Business and is a Vice President of Investment Management Associates. His investment philosophy matches mine 100% and I quite like the guy, but I have never had him manage my money (at least not yet). Another money manager who does quite well and lives practically in Fisher Investments back yard is a middle aged friend of the family, Dr. Vladimir Naroditsky of Vega Capital Group. Naroditsky is also a former SJ State University math professor. Again, I have no personal experience with him managing my money, but he has not been afraid to get in and out of markets, as necessary. I have other friends who are money managers, such as Scott Sonders in the LA area and Leo Gershoyg in Ft. Lauderdale area, but I know even less about their investments styles and therefore can not recommend them.
If all else fails, look for local CFAs using links at the CFA Institute website interview the ones you find, ask the really tough questions! See how they did in good times and bad. Don't expect a money manager to get you in and out of positions very frequently - most of the time such additional activity would actually be counterproductive. As a rule of thumb, a portfolio of 20 positions, with 2 - 6 trades per year is a good way to go. It may be next to impossible to find a money manager that is more active than that and yet consistently beats indexes.
Lastly, your question on "the bit about lack of performance info." Fisher Investments does not lie about their performance numbers - they simply present the facts in the best possible light. For example, they do not account for a "buy in penalty" or "sell off penalty" that your account incurs by going with Fisher Investments. (Because Fisher Investments transacts lots of shares for all of their clients all on the same day, you will get inflated prices on buys and depressed prices on sells vs. the closing prices reflected in their performance numbers. I estimated the "buy in penalty" to to be around 2% in my case and expect that the "sell off penalty" would be in the same ballpark or slightly smaller, on average) If you have less than $1M in assets under management with them, your returns will be reduced further by 1/8% - 1/4% in additional fees and by commissions that will eat up a large than assumed percentage of your assets. You really need to be able to see more than just the annual returns in order to be able to evaluate Money Manager's performance. Remember, Mutual Funds publish their entire performance curves in their prospectuses. An important question to ask a money manager is what their worst rolling 12 month loss was and when. That's because you never know where in the cycle you will be joining them.
Fisher Investments: Well, what did you expect?...
Most investment firms make money off of fees and commissions from their clients... if they were paid according to a percentage of the profits their clients actually made there probably wouldn't be any investment advisers in business... fortunately, the basic rules are actually quite easy to follow... keep it simple -- e.g. index funds, ETF's, etc... keep it cheap -- lowest commission brokers, lowest fee index funds... keep it diversified -- income and growth according to age and risk tolerance... keep it safe -- don't invest anything you can't afford to lose... keep it consistent -- invest on a fixed regular weekly, monthly, whatever basis... most importantly -- DON'T pay anyone to manage your dough unless they are willing to share the losses... and I don't know of anyone willing to do that.
Fisher Investments: So What is All this Fuss About?
Jake, With all due respect, I find this thread annoying. I have replied to your article with the purpose to show that the data that you and I have do not substantiate your rhetoric. I expected you to agree or disagree with my reply to your article, going line-by-line. Instead you introduce new facts and blames, which are so fuzzy that I see as impractical to reply. But here are few things that I would like to address.
Regarding Fisher‘s “inconsistency” and “volatility”. Looking at the graphs, I do not see that Fisher is visibly more (or less) volatile than MSCI World or S&P500. All these indices are significantly more volatile than Government bonds, which most probably you avoid for the same reason that I avoid them: low return.
You criticize Fisher for investing in MSCI Emerging Markets on the ground that Fisher measures his performance relative to MSCI World. This rhetoric puzzles me. What exactly is your point here? What would you say if Fisher concludes that the market is going done and reinvests the majority of holding into Government bonds? As I pointed in my original reply, “though Fisher uses MSCI World as his benchmark, he is not an MSCI World ETF”.
Regarding “excessive” fees that Fisher charges. Fisher charges 1.25% annual (if I remember correctly). Though it is obviously much higher than the expense of Index funds, it is on par with most of mutual funds.
Now the conversation diluted to Fisher charging $1000 for early termination (~0.1%). I wonder how it is compared with load mutual funds (e.g. Oppenheimer) that may charge 5% or so for entering the fund. As far as Fisher trying to collect $2,000 from Jake they are not entitled to (agree this sucks), I suggest distinguishing between Fisher Accounting and Fisher Investment. So far, this is the only justifiable critique of Fisher Investment that I can see in this thread.
So far all this noise and the lack of substantiated facts show that Fisher is a very reasonable choice for the investors who do not have time and knowledge to manage their portfolios. If someone has better investment ideas, I would like to hear that.
Fisher Investments: I couldn't agree more
After reading this blog I couldn't agree more with what has been said. The single goal of the firm is to be huge, with regard to assets under their management. They are accomplishing this through their marketing and sales force, not their investment results.
The sales force presents and sells the firm through a series of "market calls" that show some of Ken Fishers market predictions in Forbes going back to 1987. As the sales person walks through the "calls" there is a chart of the S&P 500 next to it. Taken at face value the story looks really good. "We called the crash of 87, we got back in and then got out prior to the 90 recession, we then rode the bull market of the the 90's, we called the tech bubble in 2000 and the bear market in 2001, we got back in in 2002, etc, etc." It is interesting to know that Fisher didn't manage material client accounts until 1995 and it shows this on the back of their performance sheet. In fact, they show having only 1 client in 1995! They may have managed money prior, but to show this history going back to 1987 infers that they did manage client accounts and is misleading. I suppose to say they made a call is correct but this person inferred they did these actions.
They also have a mutual fund that they put clients with smaller accounts into. It is supposed to be a close resemblance to their main strategy, according to the salesman. I looked it up and it is rated only 2 stars on the 3 and 5 year time period by Morningstar. The same Morningstar report says to basically look elsewhere for options.
I asked the person who came to see me what some of the stocks are that they would hold for me. He said, and I quote, "I don't know what is in the portfolio, you should hire us for our talent and let us worry about that." Frightening to hear.
I also found some negative articles written in Business Week and the Wall Street Journal that weren't too impressive on Fisher as well.
Fisher Investments: Class Action Lawsuit Proposed
We have received the following letter to the editor by email today. I am passing it on without further comments, except to say that Fisher Investments contracts explicitly specify that $1,000 early termination fee will be charged to all accounts terminated within the first 12 months, unless they are terminated within the initial 30 days of signing the agreement.
In the first 10 months of FI managing about $900K, they managed to make and then lose $170k inspite of "actively" managing our account. Upon researching the issue I found that they made many initial purchases and then simply rode the value of these stocks down 20-40%. When I researched these stocks I found public info that indicated that these loses were due to issues publicly known. FI chose to ignore these market risks, collected their fees, and decimated our portfolio. When I terminated the relationship, they charged a $1,000 SetUp Fee. I am interested in contacting other FI clients who have had these problems for the purpose of collaborating on a law suit. Email me at chardest@aol.com Thx
Fisher Investments: Let us Sue Almighty
By reading your “Class Action Lawsuit” article, it is unclear to me what is exactly you are blaming Fisher for:
- For making $170k?
- For losing previously made $170k?
- For keeping bad stocks that everyone new are going to lose in value? BTW, if you know a stock that has “public info” that it is going to go down, please let us know.
- For charging 0.1% of setup fee ($1000)
As far as the law-suit, what the hack, we are in America. Let us sue him. Let us make some money. But wait: US Government has more money. Let us sue US Government for systematic depreciation of US Dollar and allowing Euro to climb against USD. Or maybe even better: let us sue Almighty for a gross negligence in allowing Hurricane Katrina.
I am also curious to know what 10 months you are talking about.
Jake is right about Fisher Investments
Jake is right about Fisher Investments.
I learned more about investing reading Eric Tyson's books - Investing for Dummies and Mutual Funds for Dummies
Fisher Investments
As a former Fisher client, I concur 100 % with Jake's assessment of Fisher Investments.
Fisher Investments
I read Jake's blog, after receiving a sell confirmation from Bear Sterns that sold my MSCI ISHARES for a loss of 45% since buying all these shares in the spring, when I invested all my 401K/IRA in Fisher. I did not expect this, since Fisher touts the MSCI as key to their strategy.
I am concerned that this sameness in portfolios that Jake mentions is detrimental to someone like myself who rolled over all my retirement funds that were then invested close to 100% in the Fisher selections without regard to the fact that many of the stock selections had been at or near their high of this 'bull' market.
I am very concerned, but I guess am not alone in my concerns.


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